Telephone call with Faith Files 5/12/2007

– Faith has known James Files from her teens and was married to him from 1971 untill he went to jail in 1980. When I first called her she did not want to talk to me, as she first wanted to know more about me. I promised to send her a package of DVD’s and my book, in order to give her a better understanding of who I am and my involvement with the James Files story. When I called her again after a month or so, I decided to record the call as I realized she could potentially corroborate important elements of the confession of James. About a year later I confessed to her that I had recorded the phone call. Initially she was upset about this, but on June 20, 2008 she granted me permission to publish the transcript of the call on this website. I wish to express my gratitude to her, for as you will see, she corroborates crucial elements of his confession:

– He was in the military and court martialed.
– he was in South East Asia and training for the Bay of Pigs
– He used the name James Sutton when he was young
– The kidnapping and torture
– His association with Charles Nicoletti
– Nicoletti gave him a diary
– He was close with Wolfman (who made the special loads for Dallas)
– The Fireball


Faith – Hello?

Wim – This is Wim ……….from Holland

Faith – Oh, hi!

Wim – Faith, did you receive my package?

Faith – Yes , I did

Wim – Okay, but you haven’t had time to look at it, I guess.

Faith – I have started ….. looking at it.

Wim – Well then, you know a little bit more about me now…

Faith – (laughs) …yeah …. so are you interviewing Jim or is that somebody else? ….

Wim – No, it’s me and Jim Marrs. Jim Marrs is.., well in the JFK research community he is a rather well known journalist and investigator. He also wrote books about aliens and UFO’s … I’m not into that at all, but he has also worked his life on the JFK assassination, so he’s rather famous in that area.

Faith – Mmm (acknowledges that she understands)

Wim – But I was curious, what made you move to such a far away state?

Faith – Arizona, for the retirement….that’s a nicer place …… with no cold..

Wim – Yeah, it’s not snowing there I guess in the winter.

Faith – No ….. it’s in the desert, so ….

Wim – Yeah… it’s a pity that Jimmy can’t move

Faith – Is he still in jail? I haven’t heard from him in a long time.

Wim – Yeah , he ‘s still in jail. How long have you been out of touch with him?

Faith – Aah.. quite a while .. it’s … oh I don’t even remember …it has been quite a while.

Wim – About 10 years?

Faith – Probably.

Wim – And do you have one daughter with him? Or two?

Faith – One.

Wim – And that’s Kathy, isn’t it?

Faith – No, Kathy is from his first marriage.

Wim – Oh, Okay ……

Faith – Have you talked to her?

Wim – No.. I don’t know where she is, or where she lives. Probably in Illinois, right?

Faith – Yes, probably. I know she is married but I don’t know her last name.

Wim – Yeah … okay…

Faith – Have you talked to his first wife?

Wim – No, but I know when she married Jimmy her name was Eleanor Schramm, right? And now it’s Eleanor Albert.

Faith – Oh yes, that’s what it was, I couldn’t remember, but that’s what it is, yeah.

Wim – Yeah, but she’s not in a phonebook. I do have an envelope of her here …….with an address …..ah you know I can find her in USsearch.com but not in the white pages. You know, I have tried, but Albert is not such a, well it’s a rather common name also.

Faith – Oh is it?

Wim – Yeah, so there are more Alberts, so it’s difficult to locate her. But I would like to contact her.

Faith – Well, I don’t know how to contact her either. I haven’t heard from her in probably 20 years.

Wim – Yes, but did you watch any of the DVDs yet?

Faith – Yes, I started watching it. I didn’t finish it yet quite but, aaah … it’s interesting. I know I wasn’t married to him when he supposedly did that but… ah ….

Wim – No, I know that, but what year did you marry him? When did you first get to know him? That’s also a little fuzzy to me, because I never asked him about that, you know. Untill now I was only interested in his story about JFK and other things, not so much in his private life.

Faith – Well, why do you want to know about, you know, the private stuff?

Wim – Well, because there is some opposition to his story. Or in fact there is very little opposition to his story, I mean people that actually see his interview, you know, are basically blown away, but there are a few discreditors who take every opportunity to say he is lying about this and that, and one such area is that he is lying about his military service, you know. They say he cannot prove he was in the military …… Of course he has no reason to lie about that, so I am very convinced that he was in the military, but people …… since he cannot prove it, because he claims all his files were erased … you know, it’s difficult for me to counter that.

Faith – mmm (acknowledging)

Wim – Well , that is why I’m glad I found you. Because maybe you could confirm that he was in the military?

Faith – Well, … I don’t know for sure ……..

Wim – No, but he did tell you that he was in the military, right?

Faith – Yes.

Wim – And do you remember when it was, what the first time was when he told you this?

Faith – You know, his first wife might be able to tell you better than I could, about his military. I don’t know if he was married to her when he went in or …..

Wim – Well… no, he married her after that, because he was in the military at quite a young age . He went in when he was 17, and he came out I guess when he was 19. And …. in the interview he specifies all that. So after that, I think it was in 1963, yeah, he married Eleanor. He´s also talking about that in the interview … ..Oh no, that´s another interview, I can still send you another interview where he talks about that.

Faith – Mmm… Does he talk about me at all?

Wim – No…….no, but you know I didn’t take that interview where he talks about Eleanor….. because the people ask him, you know, did your first wife know that you were in Dallas? And he explains all that: Half of the time she wouldn’t know where I was. Because “I was drinking quite heavily, and my business was mine, and she didn’t even dare to ask where I was, …. so she also didn’t know that I was in Dallas.” And he says well, “I’m not proud of that, because I was drinking quite heavily and I was not being so nice to her.” That’s what he tells about her. I understood that she is still rather fond of him. It was not her doing, what I understood, that they went apart.

Faith – I don’t remember ……… I know we met them when they were still together. I mean, I met him when I was 16 …. when we were kids.

Wim – Oh? You were only 16?

Faith – Yeah, and I was still in school. And then I married somebody, and we lost track of each other, and then .. aah, I don’t remember when we …

Wim – Ah, so that must have been the end of the eighties, somewhere ….

Faith – No, that was the fifties.

Wim – Oh? You met him even before he married?

Faith – Yeah. I was in school. He was 16 too. We’re just about the same age.

Wim – Aaah! Okay.

Faith – And his name was Sutton then.

Wim – Ah? ……. Oh, that’s good! (laughs) …. Because they also try to say that he never used the name Sutton. But you remember that he used the name Sutton?

Faith – Yes.

Wim – Okay, very nice, that’s good! Because they also try to discredit that. Do you also know when he started to use the name Files?

Faith – No, I don’t. Like I said I got married and he went about his business. We didn’t see each other for several years. And then my husband and I saw him somewhere, and we became friends with him and his wife. But then, you know, we saw each other once in a while. I don’t know why they separated.

Wim – Ah yeah.

Faith – But then later on my husband and I divorced, and then him and I started dating.

Wim – Ah okay, so you first met him when you were a teenager and then you hooked up together much later then?

Faith – Yeah, in the seventies.

Wim – In the seventies, okay, so you married in the seventies with him?

Faith – I think it was ….. yeah, I think so .

Wim – Like 73 or 74 or more…..

Faith – No, I think it was 70 or 71. I don’t remember, I would have to look it up.

Wim – And were you still married when he went to jail? To the Oxford prison?

Faith – Yeah, and we had a daughter, in 75

Wim – Ah okay. And what was the first time that he told you that he had been in the military? Was that right after ……

Faith – Oh, he probably mentioned it a few times, I don’t remember.

Wim – But when you married him, he already had told you that? That he had been a soldier?

Faith – Yeah

Wim – Okay, did he also tell you where?

Faith – Ah …He said over in Vietnam. You know, with the Bay of Pigs and stuff.

Wim – Yeah, well, the Bay of Pigs was Cuba, that was not …….

Faith – Well, Cuba, whatever! (laughs)

Wim – Well, first he was in Vietnam, and after he got out of that, he was recruited for the Bay of Pigs.

Faith – Mmm (affirming)

Wim – So right when you were married in the seventies you already knew that he had been involved in the Bay of Pigs and uh ….

Faith – Well, he never really talked much about it, he just mentioned it. Yeah, that he was in the service and ….

Wim – Well, it supports … It’s nice for me to know wether he said that when all this stuff about JFK came out, or way before that. When you first met him you already knew that he had mentioned the Bay of Pigs and his service in South East Asia? Is that correct?

Faith – Mmm, yeah.

Wim – Uuh, did Jimmy ever mention anything about his court martial to you?

Faith – Yeah, he said he was court martialed and dishonorly discharged

Wim – Yeah, but it was swept under the carpet, right?

Faith – Mmm (confirming)

Wim – And that was because? ….. He is still a little bit skimmish to talk about this in the interviews…

Faith – Oh…

Wim – Not with me, because I didn’t ask him about it, but he doesn’t really want to go into it, because he said he killed two of his own men…

Faith- Oh, I don’t know what happened, he just said he was courtmartialed.

Wim – Yeah, and that was also when you first met him? I mean this was not lately, but when you were married with him, right?

Faith – Oh, yeah.

Wim – Okay ….. Well uuh, is there anything more you want to know about me?

Faith – Well ah … I heard that his daughter ….. that he got 25 thousand from this other guy? And that he gave it to his daughter?

Wim – Well, uuh, I think he got it from Dick Clark productions. The other guy hooked up with Dick Clark, and Dick Clark agreed to give him 50 thousand that would go to , yeah (thinking) … to both his daughters.

Faith – Well, my daughter got nothing.

Wim – No? ….. Okay…… Well then ….

Faith – And I was very upset about that.

Wim – Aah ..okay. Were you promised anything from that?

Faith – No … ah ……I am trying to remember. I guess when that guy called. I talked to him and he told me he had given some money for Kathy and for Shawnn, my daughter.

Wim – Well, …… was it not for Kathy and his ex-wife?

Faith – No …..

Wim – You know, I am a little bit fuzzy about this because this was way before I came in on the scene.

Faith – Yeah well, Kathy ..

Wim – But I can look it up, … and I can email it to you …

Faith – Well yeah, I was kind of upset, because my daughter could have used some money too. Because I had it really rough when he went to jail. And I had to take care of my kids, and work, and it wasn’t easy and it would have been nice for his daughter to get some money too.

Wim – Well I know, I think he is fond of both of his daughters, right?

Faith – Yeah, he thought it went to both of his daughters, but it didn’t, it just went to the one. Because my daughter got nothing.

Wim – Yeah, well, I have to look it up. Because I have it in emails or in writing. Bob Vernon at the time wrote it all down. Because there were also people that claim “Yeah, he asked money for his story”. But I think it was offered to him, if I remember correctly, he didn’t ask for nothing but when it was offered to him by Dick Clark he said okay, it will go to my daughters. To my daughter, or to my daughter and ex-wife, something like that, but I can look it up, I could let you know.

Faith – Well, I know I didn’t get anything, and my daughter didn’t get anything, and I don’t think he would have given anything to his first ex-wife, cause he doesn’t like her.

Wim – No, but she still likes him I believe.

Faith – I don’t know.

Wim – How did I get that in my head? Well, yeah, I have read it somewhere. I can look that up too. … Oh yeah, because I think she didn’t want him to get involved in the JFK story because she thought it could hurt his appeal or strenghten his sentence. I think, yeah, there ‘s a story that she even wanted to discredit him. Yeah, because she invented a story with the lawyer at that time, that he had a twin brother ……and well …

Faith – Well, I thought he had a twin brother too that died at birth..

Wim – Oh? That’s interesting. That died at birth?

Faith – Yeah.

Wim – Where did you hear that? From himself, or ….?

Faith – Yeah, from him. And that’s why I thought when I saw on television that they said ….

Wim – Well anyway, it couldn’t have been his twin brother that was in Dallas instead of him.

Faith – No, when his brother was supposed to have died when he was born and he lived, you know? And that was why I was wondering that maybe the one birth certificate said he died at birth …. and that he was supposed to have a twin that died at birth ……..?

Wim – Yeah, because his birth certificate .. I have never seen that birth certificate …. supposedly it said “deceased at birth”, right? But that’s James Files … was his twin brother also called James Files then?

Faith – I doubt it.

Wim – Or James Sutton?

Faith – No …. I don’t know if they named it … I don’t know …… but uhm … I don’t wanna get threatened or get killed if I talk to you …..

Wim – Ooh ….. Well, are you concerned?

Faith – Well yeah , a little …

Wim – Well uhh, that’s good! (laughing) because that proves that Jimmy is not a hoax, right? If you’re concerned about talking to me ….

Faith – Yeah well ….

Wim – Well, I’m not concerned at all , to be honest … cause I’ve never been threathened … and as long as they are succesful in painting Jimmy a kook that’s just telling a story for 15 minutes of fame, then … you know, nothing will ever happen. And besides, you know, you can’t keep threathening … you can’t keep killing them all! You know, that’s’…. that’s too much a risk. They haven’t killed Jimmy!

Faith – Yeah … well, that would make it plausible then (laughing)

Wim – Yeah, yeah, that’s what everybody says….Oh, if they kill him I really believe the story! I mean, it’s really stupid. Besides there are many more people that know about this … aah … and are alive, you know. Maybe the only difference with Jimmy is that they are not talking. But for example they just released this Cuban, Luis Posada Carilles, he blew up a plane in 1976 together with Orlando Bosch. Both of these guys, you know, were on Dealey Plaza. I know that from another source. Jimmy doesn’t know about that, but they were both on Dealey Plaza. And Luis Posada Carilles remembers Jimmy from the Bay of Pigs. He vaguely remembers him and said : Yeah I always used to say: Let the kid do it! The kid from Chicago….. Well he certainly was a kid at that time…. because he was only, well what was he? 19 , 20, when he was training the guys for the Bay of Pigs?

Faith – Yeah I guess ..

Wim – But you know, they are alive and there are many more people alive that were in Dallas that day, that know exactly about the plot to kill Kennedy. Aah, like Charles Harrelson, he was in jail, he died just recently, just a few months ago ..

Faith – Is that Woody Harrelson’s father?

Wim – Yes …yes, he was in Dallas and well.. Jimmy doesn’t know anything about him … he didn’t see him there, but you know, they didn’t know about each other because they were in different teams and it was a need-to-know operation.. That to me also enhances Jimmy’s credibility. Because he says: The only thing I know is my instructions from Charles Nicoletti.

Faith – Mmmm ..

Wim – And he doesn’t know there were more teams……. As far as he is concerned he and Charles Nicoletti were the only shooters that day.

Faith – Mmmm ..

Wim – But that’s surely not the case, because there were many witnesses that saw people with rifles in the Texas school depository window. So there were also shooters there, but that was a different team.

Faith – Mmm , yeah ……

Wim – And there was maybe one more team, a third team …. because I also think there was a shooter on the roof … of another building, … the County Records building

Faith – Wow ….

Wim – And uh … Jimmy does not know about all that, so that to me proves that indeed he has not read a lot about the JFK assassination

Faith – Mmmm ..

Wim – When he told his story, ofcourse people started writing him, sending him books and articles, that’s when he learned more about the assassination … but not before…. But uuh, no, I don’t think you should be concerned, at all. I mean I have been active with this story for six years, and in those six years I have been to the United States at least four times… without any trouble.

Faith – Yeah …. and another thing: Well, is…,I don’t know how to say this ..

Wim – Well, take your time …

Faith – Well, aah…I would want, … I wouldn’t want people to know … who I am now?

Wim – Oh, no no no, you can rely on my confidence.. No that is how …

Faith – Well (interrupting) .. go ahead.

Wim – Sorry?

Faith – What were you going to say?

Wim – No … if you ask me .. you know, I will only use things with your explicit permission.

Faith – mmm, okay

Wim – You know, if you like you can ask Jimmy about this… I know things about Jimmy that he doesn’t want the world to know …. and I haven’t broken that confidence, you know. Other murders he did for example. So … if I could not be trusted , I would already have told the world about that. … So that’s how I work.

Faith – Well, I don’t even know how to get hold of him.

Wim – No?

Faith – No.

Wim – Well, you can write him a letter!

Faith – Yeah, I guess my mother knows where he is, the address where he is.

Wim – Well, I have his address. I can email you some letters where his address is, and where his inmate number is above the letter.

Faith – Oh, okay.

Wim – Have you ….. Did your relationship with him really go sour?

Faith – Well, after he was arrested and in jail for I don’t know, maybe five years or so, we decided that I should just get a divorce. So I got a divorce.

Wim – And was that uuh … on his recommendation?

Faith – Yeah, he didn’t want me to wait around for him, because he didn’t know how long he would be in.

Wim – Well… Oh, that’s a rather nice and altruistic thought! I mean lots of women would say: Honey, I don’t care how long you are in, I will keep waiting for you! But I guess what Jimmy then said, is the more realistic approach.

Faith – Yeah, because he didn’t know what was going to happen, so he just … you know.

Wim – Yeah ….

Faith – He was thinking about me….

Wim – Yeah, yeah, very good. Well, you know, that’s what I like about Jimmy. You received my letter, right? Where I said a crook with a heart?

Faith – Yeah (laughs)

Wim – That’s what he is, right?

Faith – Yeah, when he cared about people he really cared about them. You couldn’t have a better friend.

Wim – Yeah, he is also very religious now ……

Faith – I guess so ..

Wim – Did you know that?

Faith – I uuh, I heard it.

Wim – And have you seen any of his drawings and pictures?

Faith – Aah, well, he used to send us cards. So yeah, we have that.

Wim – Well, he also does drawings. I have about 50 drawings of him.

Faith – Oh wow.

Wim – Some are cartoons and some are really realistic drawings. With flowers, or the jungle or helicopters… I can send you pictures of those too. They are on my website.

Faith – Well, do you want my email address then?

Wim – Yes, please, yes … because I could send you lots of stuff , I would like to communicate with you over time

Faith – Okay.. It’s xxxxxxx

Wim – Okay, then I wil also send you the interviews over the Internet , where he speaks about Eleanore. But that’s an interview from 1994, a long time ago, and that’s more, he tells more about his private life. Because they ask him about that. You know, they try to corroborate his Dallas story by asking him about people he knew at the time and whether they could contact them.

Faith – mmm, yeah, okay

Wim – Oh yeah, there was one more question that springs to mind: Did you know about his relationship with Charles Nicoletti?

Faith – Yes … I met Nicoletti one day.

Wim – And Jimmy introduced him to you?

Faith – Well, he came in our restaurant, we had a restaurant. That was in Melrose Park.

Wim – Is that the Coffee Cup?

Faith – Ahah, and Mr. Nicoletti came in there, and Jim left with him. And I couldn’t ask him anything that was going on, he just … you know…

Wim – Did he generally keep you out of his contacts with Nicoletti? Was this just a rare occassion?

Faith – Oh yeah! That was rare.

Wim – Okay, but you knew that they were associating, that they were good friends ……

Faith – Yeah …. and the night that Nicoletti was killed, Jim was beside himself. He said that he should have been with him and he was really upset.

Wim – Yes, well, that was one of the rare nights that he was not with him, right?

Faith – Yeah

Wim – Because I think that Nicoletti didn’t want him with him.

Faith – That night I guess, I don’t know, I know that he wasn’t with him and when he found out about it, he was upset and left the house.

Wim – Do you also know about his torture? That he was found almost dead?

Faith – Yes, he was kidnapped, out of the Coffee Cup, and I didn’t see him, I don’t know how long it was, it was a couple of days I think, and finally the police brought him home..

Wim – Yes, and he was in really bad shape I guess..

Faith – Yes, mmmm

Wim – Did you see him right after?

Faith – Yeah

Wim – Was he beaten up?

Faith – Yes, and his arms had marks and he was even tied up.

Wim – Mmm, okay, and did you take care of him at that time?

Faith – Yeah …

Wim – Where did he recuperate? Just at home?

Faith – Yeah, at home

Wim – With you?

Faith – Yeah

Wim – Okay, do you also know anything about the diary? Probably not huh?

Faith – He mentioned it once.

Wim – That Nicoletti gave him a diary?

Faith – Yes, that’s where he went that night, to get it.

Wim – What? Which night? The night that he was kidnapped?

Faith – No, the night Nicoletti was killed.

Wim – Aah, the night Nicoletti was killed? I don’t understand now. You’re saying that’s where he went that night?

Faith – Yeah, after he heard about it. He went out, and I think it was to get the diary and I think he destroyed it.

Wim – Oh, after he was tortured, he went out, right?

Faith – No, after he heard that Nicoletti was killed. I think. I’m not sure …

Wim – Okay …. no, what he tells is that he hid the diary, somewhere, that he buried it somewhere, and after Nicoletti was killed .. uhh yeah, he went back I believe. No no, after Nicoletti was killed, he then hid the diary. I’m not sure now ……. I have to rewatch it, what he said.

Faith – Yeah, I’m not positive either about everything, I’m just trying to remember things.

Wim – Yeah, well, what I remember is only from what he said in the interviews, and I think it went like this: Nicoletti gave him the diary, and said: Keep this as a sort of life insurance. Someday you might need it. And he buried it somewhere and then three weeks after Nicoletti was killed, he was kidnapped by … some government people … he doesn’t know really what they were, CIA or FBI, he thinks it was FBI because the CIA would really have killed him and then …..

Faith – They used a cattle prod on him, he said.

Wim – Yeah, it was a severe torture. He also thinks that they left him for dead. They thought he was dead. But he wasn’t dead. And the CIA or the mob would have made sure he would have been dead. That’s why he thinks it was the FBI. But what I wanted to say is that these people wanted the diary. They wanted to know where the diary was.

Faith – Oh, so maybe …..

Wim – And Jimmy didn’t tell them! So that’s really character I would say!

Faith – Yeah, so maybe he just went out looking for people the night that Nicoletti was killed, maybe that’s what it was. He may have went looking for people to find out the answer, and then, maybe it was after he was kidnapped that he went out …

Wim – Yeah, I think he went back and then destroyed some of the contents of the package. But he kept the diary. But there was also the motorcade route and the secret service credentials.

Faith – Oh, was that what that was all about?

Wim – Yeah, from Dallas! He says that was also in there, but he says he disposed of that. He destroyed that, he burned all that. I don’t really know if that’s true but..

Faith – I don’t know, he told me he destroyed it.

Wim – Well, you know … that’s probably safer for you …..and for everybody … to tell that he destroyed it. I mean the more people that know he still has it … you know.

Faith – Mmm

Wim – They still want it, I guess.

Faith – Oh wow, but he said he destroyed it.

Wim – Well yeah, okay, It’s good for you to believe he destroyed it, I think.

Faith – (laughs)

Wim – Because if those people believe that he told you (where the diary is) .. then, you know, something might happen to you … You might be kidnapped! (laughs)

Faith – I know nothing!

Wim – Well, that’s probably why he said he destroyed it. I am sure he never disclosed the location of where that diary is to anyone.

Faith – I am surprised since you’re talking to him, he hasn’t told you (laughs).

Wim – Well, he also has some penpal girlfriend, or had, I don’t know how the relationsip is now, but he entrusted her a lot, a girl from Hawaii, and he never told her anything. I asked him about it. Why not Pam, because her name is Pam, why don’t you tell her? And then he explained to me: Well, if I tell her, she would probably be dead in the next 48 hours.

Faith – Oh!

Wim – So you know, yeah, that’s a good reason I guess. And he’s right! I mean if they tortured him to death, or they thought they tortured him to death, then yeah, they would probably go far. So I think it’s probably a very altruistic thing to not share it with anybody.

Faith – Yeah I guess so. But aah, are you going to make money off of this?

Wim – Ah well, you know, so far I have INVESTED a lot of money into this. And uh … I would have to do really well to get that money back! (laughs) But on the other hand I also have to say that I have some DVDs on the market now, and I recently finished my … well .. opus magnus I would call it, a comprehensive work, it’s 2 hours, a comprehensive documentary where all the evidence is presented in a clear way. And well, I still have good confidence that I can market that. So the question “Are you making money off this” is really difficult to answer, because, well, the situation is that so far it has costed me a lot of money. And I am selling some DVDs and some books on my website, but that’s, you know, really a drop in the ocean. It’s like a dripping tab, while it could be Niagara Falls. But it all comes together with the right backing and the right distribution of mainstream publishers. And mainstream publishers, it seems they don’t wanna touch on this story. You know? It’s too hot to handle! But I am still confident that I may find a really courageous distributor, or maybe a rich millionaire in the Hollywood business that wants to take this on. Because I think it touches on the integity of the whole American society.

Faith – Oh yeah, if they find out that the CIA had something to do with it, it’s really …..

Wim – Yeah, I guess you don’t know anything about that, that Jimmy was connected with the CIA?

Faith – Well …. (pause of thinking) … not really.

Wim – Because it’s his job to keep quiet about that.

Faith – Yeah, but he did say, you know, he thought that the FBI had grabbed him. And I wonder how come? (laughs). Yeah, I didn’t know much about what was going on….. But I did meet Wolfman.

Wim – Oh? Oh well, ….. did you also know that Wolfman was dead one week after Jimmy tried to introduce him to Joe West?

Faith – Well, I found out that he was dead, but I didn’t realize, I had not had contact with Jim, I didn’t know what he was doing, but I did find out that Wolfman had died, but I had no idea, you know , that it was becasue of that.

Wim – Well, you know, you can never be sure it was because of that. It’s just a coincidence that after 4 days, or 5 days, within a week after Jimmy tried to have him talk to Joe West, he is dead. That’s also in the interview, I don’t know if you have seen it yet ….

Faith – Well, yeah, I don’t know if I saw that or if I read it.

Wim – But Wolfman’s real name was George, right?

Faith – Right.

Wim – George Collura.

Faith – Oh, that’s it! I couldn’t remember his last name.

Wim – I tried to find anything on him on the Internet, but you know, he was really a secret person. I would think I would find some entry when he was the special weapons guy for the mob and for Giancana and all those guys, I would think I find something on him, but nothing…

Faith – Well, he was over at our house a couple of times. Cause he was I thought a friend of Jim. And we saw him once in a while and in fact one day in our restaurant I got really upset with him because he shot a mouse in our restaurant.

Wim – He shot a what?

Faith – A mouse.

Wim – A mouse? Oh, a mouse … an animal.

Faith – Yeah, a mouse, he shot it when it ran out of his little hole. I mean when there were no customers in there, thank God!. But I was in there and they were talking about shooting it, and I said: Don’t do it!

Wim – Did you also know that Wolfman was really specialized in weapons?

Faith – I knew that he knew a lot about weapons yeah, but I didn’t know how come or anything, no. I just knew…., well, Jim liked weapons too, you know…… I saw his Fireball.

Wim – You saw his Fireball?

Faith – Yeah

Wim – But that was stolen right? From his aunt’s house?

Faith – Well probably. I saw it when we were living together, when we were married. He lived with my aunt after he got out of jail.

Wim – After he got out of jail?

Faith – Yeah, Oxford.

Wim – Oh, so that was very late then. That was 1988…. when he came out of that jail.

Faith – I don’t remember.

Wim – Aah, because this other guy, Bob Vernon, says that aunt Christine practically raised him as a boy.

Faith – Who?

Wim – Aunt Christine.

Faith – Oh Christine. But my aunt was the one he was living with in Round Lake. And that was Kay.

Wim – Oh yeah, Kay and Arnold.

Faith – Yeah.

Wim – They died too. Which is a real shame, yeah, they had a storage shed where Jimmy kept all his papers.

Faith – mmm

Wim – And nobody knows where that went. Jimmy thinks that this Vernon guy took it all and that he returned only a fraction of it. Because there were a few cartons, a few boxes of papers and he got only a legal size envelope back of him.

Faith – mmm

Wim – So he thinks I have them now, but the papers that he describes are certainly not in there. Because he talks about manuals on how to make bombs and things like that and I haven’t found anything like that in there. And also a map of Dealey Plaza was in there. Well, I wish I would have it! (laughs) No, what I have is all documents that were authored by Vernon himself …. and some rapsheets of Jimmy. But not much more …

Faith – Well … I don’t know.

Wim – Well, so far I really appreciate having made the aquaintance with you and … well I don’t know what to say more at this point. But I think lots of questions will keep coming up when we digest it.

Faith – Yeah , okay

Wim – And we can keep communicating by email.

End